Species 8472 debate

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Xen
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Species 8472 debate

Post by Xen » Fri Aug 23, 2013 10:18 pm

To avoid derailing Resin Modellers thread, I've started a new one here. Marc made some interesting comments about the dimensions.
marcnoonan wrote:I did a lot of research into the sizes of the 2 8472 ships as they are one of my favourite (yes I like Vorlons too) with a thread on the Mighty ten-12. There's some good comparison shots with Voyager and the standard bioships on the same screen and I concluded that the standard ships are 160m with the "Planet Killer" centre ship being accurately measured at 25% longer than the standard at 200m. There's also a 1/1400 Bioship which works out to 160m and looks spot on to the screen comparison when the 2 models were together. I found the same 50m? size reference you probably did.

I always thought just one type existed. After looking at the EAS site, they've come to the same conclusion.
Although real proof is missing, I am going with the explanation in the Fact Files and Star Trek: The Magazine that there is only one known type of bioship. In order to focus a beam that may disintegrate a whole planet, as seen in VOY: "Scorpion", the center vessel may alter its configuration.

Class specifications
Length: approx. 50m
Crew complement: 1
I tend to agree with Marc's analysis. Although it's been a long time since I've watched Voyager the two ships look vastly different. Yet, EAS has them listed as standard and "firing" positions. Unless they radically morph into another shape to fire, they can't be the same ship/size.
8472 1.jpg
8472 1.jpg (38.41 KiB) Viewed 2055 times
8472 2.jpg
8472 2.jpg (45.66 KiB) Viewed 2055 times
I'm sure this subject, like so many other Trek size anomalies, has been debated enough times. It would be a first for AST though, so what are your thoughts? :)

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Re: Species 8472 debate

Post by Resin-Modeller » Sat Aug 24, 2013 6:49 am

I think it falls into the size anomaly lol.

The first bioship you see in the Borg wreckage looks as though its the size of Voyagers nacelle. The ones in fluidity space look a lot larger.

Could be like the Klingon bird of prey in that it has like 20 different dimensions or the Delta Flyer that is bigger than Voyagers shuttlebay and yet on screen it fits perfectly and not only that the intrepid class has a TARDIS like interior featuring a maintenance bay "extreme risk" a runway "counterpoint" and a hanger to hold lots of ships "drive"

Ah dunno. Still one of the deadlines enemies imo


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Re: Species 8472 debate

Post by MEATLOAFr » Sat Aug 24, 2013 6:45 pm

From what I've seen from the episodes, I figured they are the same ship.

When we first see the one "wake up" the 3 fins come out of the main hull, no reason to figure that a biological ship can't have other fins that can move/grow. Let alone to appear to gain mass (puffer fish)
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Re: Species 8472 debate

Post by Moongrim » Sat Aug 24, 2013 9:47 pm

Puffer Fish Ship?

Or perhaps more in line with other biological organisms- Tumescence?
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Re: Species 8472 debate

Post by steelfox » Sat Aug 24, 2013 11:30 pm

I thought the two desings looked familiar, I just checked the old ST:ARMADA II PC game.
It calls the top vessel a 'Battleship' and the bottom a 'Bio-Pulse Frigate'.
Four Battleships funnel energy through on Frigate to form a Death Star style super-energy beam.

Size wise they look about the same.
I am guessing Bioware made up the designators and Bio-Pulse idea.

Freaky critters, fun to play though!


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Re: Species 8472 debate

Post by marcnoonan » Sun Aug 25, 2013 3:06 am

Whether they are 2 separate ships or a different configuration of the same, they definitely warrant separate models. With a lot of freeze framing, when you get the straight on side view of the "planet killer" the central ship is 100% definitely 25% longer than the accompanying mostly seen ships.

Can't keep my eyes open...will continue tomorrow.

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Re: Species 8472 debate

Post by marcnoonan » Tue Aug 27, 2013 2:18 am

Back again,

The only 2 online size guesses I could find were 50m and 200m, I have a major problem with the 50m length as Chakotay (sorry not Tuvok) states "that the chamber ahead is roughly 40m wide and full of anti-matter particles which looks like a warp propulsion system of some kind". If the ship is only 50m long then I measured the central part of the ship as only 32.5m long leaving no space for anything such as weapons, cockpit, etc and it's only 4m high/wide at its thinnest. When they are in the ship it's at least 2.5m high with another meter or so in the recesseses in the ceiling containing the organic conduits and a lot wider than that on screen. 50m just doesn't make sense on so many different levels. On top of that when both ships are side by side when they first pull away from the Cube, with the bioship in the background, it's over a third of the size of Voyager.

I have a mesh for the bioship and I will be getting it printed @160m when I've finished doing a few other 3D jobs for people and so I've been pretty anal about working out the size. If one is ever released or made for the "planet killer" centre ship I'll be printing that @200m.

The defence rests lol.

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Re: Species 8472 debate

Post by FLEETYARD » Sun Feb 09, 2014 2:42 pm

I have made a calculation with a screenshot due to current demand:
http://www.allscaletrek.com/viewtopic.p ... 0&start=40

Because both ships have the same hull configuration I would not assume that the "planet killer" is longer than the Bioship. I would rather say that they have the same length.

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